The Shrine

Apple has its roots in a garage with 16 year old Steve Jobs and 21 year old Steve Wozniak. Wozniak, who would go on to design a computer using a $20 1-2 MHz microprocessor that used a TV as a display, and printed text at 60 characters per second (which was better than the competition of the time); and Jobs who managed to secure the funding, and a retailer who would buy 50 machines at $500 a piece; a huge profit was made. Jobs would eventually expand his company into the early multi-million dollar Apple Inc.

Apple went on to change the world of computers, introducing the mouse, the icon, and the concept of a Desktop computer.

In 1984 an internal power struggle had Jobs ousted from his managerial position, and Apple took less radical approaches. This soon led to the downfall of the company, and over the next 10 years it was driven down into near obscurity.... Until Apple acquired NeXT, a company which had been founded by Jobs. This brought Jobs back into the Apple fold, where he quickly worked his way to the top.

This is roughly around the time when we were all back playing Starcraft on Windows 95.

Again under Steve Jobs, Apple began to aggressively market newer, sexier, premium computers with slick interfaces. Bringing new and unique models to the market; the iMac and the iBook, and eventually the iPhone - which made other cell phones of the time, even Nokia's N95, look primitive and years out of date; and it also came at a cheaper price than the other Smartphones in its class. It took the market by Storm.

Quickly, and one by one Apple surpassed the tech giants: Google, IBM, and eventually Microsoft. Then in the last year it was challenging the position of John D. Rockefeller founded Standard Oil's successor Exxon Mobil/Esso. This week, the Evil Oil Empire fell beneath Apple; which now leads as the world's most highly valued company.



With new products coming to the market, such as iCloud; expansion into new markets, like China; and Apple's aggressive and brutally effective marketing strategies - it looks like they've got a brighter future ahead.

Did you invest? =P

I was walking by my IT department head's office the other day and he was on the phone, all i heard him say as i passed by was something like, 'no no, no respecting IT guy owns a mac.'

Flip wrote:I was walking by my IT department head's office the other day and he was on the phone, all i heard him say as i passed by was something like, 'no no, no respecting IT guy owns a mac.'

I don't know that that is true anymore. haha I don't own one, but I wouldn't be against owning one. They are quite nice to use for daily computing activities. The only thing stopping me is the cost actually. Also, if you are a software developer and you want to write iOS apps then you have to own a Mac.

Half the students and professors in the CS department at Tech had Macs. Most of my colleagues at IBM opt for Macbooks (Research has the ability to choose Apple computers instead of Lenovo, the Chinese company that IBM sold their ThinkPad line to).

We've had this discussion a dozen times. That attitude is silly, and frankly, when I hear it, I assume the person speaking is more confident in their skills and understanding of computing systems than they should be.

Macs are just too hipster/cool for me.

I can assure you, not a single person in this building will be mistaken for cool, hip or "hip" anywhere.

Among other things, I can't be bothered to boot in and out of an environment (Windows) that already does everything I need. Also Apple stores weird me out. The at&t store I went into mimics everything about the Apple store but for some reason didn't freak me out at all. There's something about those fucking places in particular.

Edit: Joke reason - it's all that white :P

Speaking of VA Tech, when I entered the university in the CS program we were actually prohibited from buying an Apple computer (lol). I'm sure it was different for grad school students and faculty, though.

I am definitely a cool hipster.

Julius Seeker wrote:and a retailer who would buy 50 machines at $500 a piece; a huge profit was made.

Nearly 30 years later, Apple is still sticking to their 2500% mark up.

Enjoy your iCrap, suckers

....and the value of Apple stock has increased 4500% in the past 8 years.

kali o. wrote:

Julius Seeker wrote:and a retailer who would buy 50 machines at $500 a piece; a huge profit was made.

Nearly 30 years later, Apple is still sticking to their 2500% mark up.

Enjoy your iCrap, suckers :)

The comparison I did three years ago when I bought my Macbook: http://tows.cc/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13353

Kupek wrote: The comparison I did three years ago when I bought my Macbook: http://tows.cc/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13353

I can only assume you either made your comparisons to justify the cost or simply didn't know any better by your choices/sources in comparisons.

A good rule of thumb is a mac will cost double+ the equivalent pc laptop. Locally, macs start at $999 (to $2500). Equivalent laptops start at $350 (to $1500).

*numbers taken from BestBuy

In your comparisons did you take into account that student discount you mentioned? Does Dell give those? I love this debate, it will go on forever... until apple takes over the world.

Every time I have looked, the difference in cost between comparable hardware is around 10% of the total price. I presented such a comparison three years ago. If you have a counter-example, then show it.

Note that "most people don't need something this powerful" is not the same thing.

Also, quoted because it's funny:

kali o. wrote:simply didn't know any better by your choices/sources in comparisons.

Kupek wrote:Every time I have looked, the difference in cost between comparable hardware is around 10% of the total price. I presented such a comparison three years ago. If you have a counter-example, then show it.

I don't have a waaaay-back time machine to shoot down your 3 year old comparison, but for over the last decade+ Macs have continued to be vastly overpriced to comparable PCs. At least in the 90's, some architects and the like had a legitmate reason to champion the brand, but nowadays it's just tards that like the branding/colour and don't mind tossing away extra money for the privledge of bootcamp. I'll accomodate your completely stupid request (yes, it's a stupid request, as the price differences are immediately visible to anyone not guzzling Apple juice):

a) MacBook Pro, 17", 2.2Ghz
Intel Core i7, 4 GB DDR3, 750 GB HDD, Radeon HD 6750M 1 GB GDDR5
$2,499.00 CDN

b) Dell XPS, 17", 2.0Ghz*2.9 OC (I went with the pricier one instead of $899 XR17 for fun)
Intel Core i7, 8 GB DDR3, 1500GB HDD, GeForce® GT 555M 3GB
$1,199.99 CDN

c) HP Envy, 17", 2.3Ghz*3.4 OC (I don't like this model or HP, but it was the priciest one I could find on the site)
Intel Core i7, 6 GB DDR3, 750 GB HDD, 1GB GDDR5 Radeon(TM) HD 6850M
$1,599.00 CDN

d) MSI G Series, 15", 2.0Ghz*2.9 (finally went over to newegg to see what they had going on, pretty slim for 17" i7's)
Intel Core i7, 12 GB DDR3, 1000GB HDD, GeForce GTX 570M DDR5
$1,599.00 CDN

If we want to drop down to 15" (Mac=$1800), I'll have far more choice for comparisons ($499-899). And that's the difference....choice keeps the prices competitive.

I didnt realize they were cramming i7s into laptops nowadays, must run pretty hot!

Waiting for Apple to make a Gaming Console. :o

Apple will never ever make a gaming console. The closest they'll get will be an Apple TV that runs iOS apps, and I'd be surprised if they do even that.

Gaming isn't in Apple's DNA: consider that there's no DirectX equivalent for OS X, that Macs have always shipped with dire video cards, and that Game Center's aesthetic on iOS refers to casino table games, rather than video games. (That last point infuriates me.) Apple historically have made no concessions to gamers or game developers, and the only reason they're pandering to us now on iOS is that they recognise that the success of the platform comes down in large part to games. iOS' success as a gaming platform is in spite of Apple's position on gaming, not because of it.

I really liked Seamus Blackley's take on it, from the most recent Edge:

Seamus Blackley wrote:You can't release a device that's not a console now, and if you release one that can't be a good console, it will fail. It's just true.

[Apple] tried real hard to make the iPad about word processing and music, and the audience just doesn't want it. It's beautiful. You don't need to have a games strategy anymore.

You need to have a strategy so that your platform isn't disadvantaged in playing games, because gaming is going to be the number one activity on any platform. The highest calling of any digital device is to play a game.

Eric wrote:Waiting for Apple to make a Gaming Console. :o

It's called a Wii

Jobs resigns, but joins BoD.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Steve-Job ... l?x=0&.v=1

Great timing, if you ask me. Apple is on top of the world, with news like Seek linked about, and while this news will probably hurt the stock price a little, i dont see a huge panic setting in.

Wow.

Yeah, wow indeed. I'm waiting for the stock to fail like a businessman jumping out of the window of his 50-story building, shouting "OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!"

kali o. wrote:I don't have a waaaay-back time machine to shoot down your 3 year old comparison, but for over the last decade+ Macs have continued to be vastly overpriced to comparable PCs. At least in the 90's, some architects and the like had a legitmate reason to champion the brand, but nowadays it's just tards that like the branding/colour and don't mind tossing away extra money for the privledge of bootcamp. I'll accomodate your completely stupid request (yes, it's a stupid request, as the price differences are immediately visible to anyone not guzzling Apple juice):

What's great about those examples is that now Apple is using Intel processors, so the comparison is even more obvious.

Why does everyone love Steve Jobs so much. By all accounts the man is an asshole. People really have drank too much Koolaid when it comes to him and Apple.

"After resuming control of Apple in 1997, Jobs eliminated all corporate philanthropy programs"
He denied Lisa was his daughter: " She briefly raised their daughter on welfare when Jobs denied paternity, claiming that he was sterile; he later acknowledged paternity."

I saw a biography on Steve Jobs and it says he was a college dropout and took LSD, but all this apparently helped him into making Apple later on in life. If Microsoft didn't bailed out Apple and Apple just flopped we'd be hearing about how letting a guy who was on drugs was what led to Apple's demise, assuming we even care enough about them at this point. I think people have a tendency to assume if someone is super successful then everything they've ever done must be right. I was reading about how Michael Jordan was a fierce competitor and never shyed away from challenge even when it comes to gambling. Well that just means you lose a lot of money to gambling since you're not going to beat the house by just being more competitive, and yet I guess the point is that we're supposed to be impressed that Michael Jordan is a fierce competitor who never backs down from anyone, even against an entity he literally has no possibilty of beating.

Anarky wrote:Why does everyone love Steve Jobs so much. By all accounts the man is an asshole. People really have drank too much Koolaid when it comes to him and Apple.

"After resuming control of Apple in 1997, Jobs eliminated all corporate philanthropy programs"
He denied Lisa was his daughter: " She briefly raised their daughter on welfare when Jobs denied paternity, claiming that he was sterile; he later acknowledged paternity."

Simple answer really:

He makes lot of people very, very rich

The stock dropped briefly but now has recovered.

Julius Seeker wrote:The stock dropped briefly but now has recovered.

Wall Street put their confidence in Apple and made that public, haing the guys in charge of your money do this is a big deal, so no shocker on the stock price.

I think Apple isn't trading at a very high multiple of P/E so Jobs's health may have already been factored in the stock price. It's not exactly a secret that he has health problems.

It's bumping around between $380 and $400 right now, it's a fairly good time to buy, it closed at $381 today, another reason why it is a good time to buy is that you can expect that they're going to make some sort of big announcement soon - probably by the end of the month, and the stock price will probably jump in response to the anticipation.

Update, Apple stocks up to at $415 (from about $384 I believe when I first made this post), and have now have a market cap of now $365 billion.

Steve Jobs's position retirement has not had a negative impact.

Apple stocks are just too hipster/cool for me.

Yeah, way too expensive as well. I can get a share of IBM stock for far cheaper.

I think flipping a coin is a more reliable way to tell if a stock is overvalued or not than analyzing it. Apple's stock seems like it should be worth more if you look at stuff like P/E, but then nobody ever said anything related to stocks has to make sense.

It's not really the value of the particular share that you have to pay attention to, it is the percentage change and how well the company is looking to do in the next year vs how well it did in the last year. $10,000 in Company A stock that costs 800 a share will see greater growth than $10,000 in Company B stocks that cost $8 a share if company A increases their profits to a greater extent than company B over the next year.

Don wrote:I think flipping a coin is a more reliable way to tell if a stock is overvalued or not than analyzing it.

Or you can learn a combination of economics and cognitive psychology

Zeus wrote:

Don wrote:I think flipping a coin is a more reliable way to tell if a stock is overvalued or not than analyzing it.

Or you can learn a combination of economics and cognitive psychology

Because such knowledge proved to be predictive of the future and all analysts are billionaires?

Don wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Don wrote:I think flipping a coin is a more reliable way to tell if a stock is overvalued or not than analyzing it.

Or you can learn a combination of economics and cognitive psychology

Because such knowledge proved to be predictive of the future and all analysts are billionaires?

Are you always extreme in your deductions? I was simply saying that you can better your chances of predicting the stock market beyond flipping a coin if you were to study the main factors of stock price, such as economics and ways people think

10 years later, stock up another 1100%. Apple’s market cap is now sitting at a value near 2.5 trillion USD.

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