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  • Republican Healthcare plan

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #170121  by Shrinweck
 Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:05 am
The articles I've read seem to keep referencing the situation with a degree of finality so it's possible. This is the first explanation I've seen for why it could actually be final. At this point maybe the moderates can do something... Not even going to bother being cautiously optimistic at the chances of that though.
 #170123  by ManaMan
 Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:11 am
Maybe not. Found this article on Vox where the specifically referenced the Reddit post:
The only problem is that none of this is true. Republicans’ plan to use budget reconciliation to pass health reform and tax reform still works, as a matter of Senate rules. They can still move legislation with only 50 votes.

None of the health proposals rejected in the Senate — not the Better Care Reconciliation Act (BCRA) (the repeal-and-replace plan that Republicans had been crafting for months), nor Obamacare Repeal Reconciliation Act (which would have entirely repealed all the coverage and tax parts of Obamacare), nor the Health Care Freedom Act (skinny repeal, targeting the individual and employer mandates and the medical device tax but leaving most of the rest of Obamacare in place) — were actual bills. All of those were amendments to an underlying bill, the American Health Care Act.

Because that underlying bill has not failed yet, the Obamacare repeal effort can still proceed through reconciliation.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... tax-reform
 #170127  by Don
 Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:25 pm
There's no mechanism that prevents them from going over the health care again. It's just there's no reason to believe people will suddenly change their mind from the last time they took a vote and it'd just be a waste of everyone's time.
 #170128  by Shrinweck
 Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:54 pm
It's not about them not being able to go after healthcare again it's about them circumventing the standard 60 vote majority required to pass a bill in order to only need to get 51 votes which could have potentially left the Democrats out of the process altogether.
 #170129  by Don
 Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Obviously everything related to the health care is going to be passed on reconciliation which is why it's got its own set of restrictions in scope.
 #170187  by Shrinweck
 Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:57 am
Burnie Sanders wrote an op-ed for the NY Times about the proposal for a single payer system that he's putting forward today.
 #170188  by ManaMan
 Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:04 am
Here's the substance of his op-ed:
Bernie Sanders wrote:The transition to the Medicare for All program would take place over four years. In the first year, benefits to older people would be expanded to include dental care, vision coverage and hearing aids, and the eligibility age for Medicare would be lowered to 55. All children under the age of 18 would also be covered. In the second year, the eligibility age would be lowered to 45 and in the third year to 35. By the fourth year, every man, woman and child in the country would be covered by Medicare for All.
So it sounds like his proposal would keep the existing Medicare system in place, tack on vision, dental, & hearing aids, then expand it incrementally over 4 years to everyone by age bracket. No way this is going to pass during the Trump admin. Wouldn't even have passed during Obama's first few years when Dems had a supermajority. The Democratic party *has* a left wing (which Bernie represents) but is a center left party. I see a more likely approach to expanding government insurance is states allowing people to buy into Medicaid (the program for the poor) when no private Obamacare insurers exist for a market. That's more in line with the Democratic party ideology.

Edit: Also it should be noted that Medicare, the program for the old which Bernie is trying to expand, has big co-payments like he says he wants to do away with. I don't see him mentioning that here. Many people either buy supplemental private "medi-gap" insurance plans to cover this or they purchase government subsidized, private "Medicare Advantage" plans.
 #170189  by Shrinweck
 Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:06 pm
The important thing is to be proposing alternatives that don't involve placating the rich by screwing over the poor. The Democrats need to be submitting bills and the fact that this particular bill even has a plan that isn't "We'll decide how and what happens later" makes it look monstrously more attractive then the cut-and-run shit the Republicans have been giving us in healthcare.
 #170191  by ManaMan
 Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:18 am
Shrinweck wrote:The important thing is to be proposing alternatives that don't involve placating the rich by screwing over the poor. The Democrats need to be submitting bills and the fact that this particular bill even has a plan that isn't "We'll decide how and what happens later" makes it look monstrously more attractive then the cut-and-run shit the Republicans have been giving us in healthcare.
Don't get me wrong, Bernie's plan sounds better than the ACA & I support it. However, there isn't majority support for it in the Democratic party. Numerous Republicans wrote shitty Obamacare replacement bills but none of them were able to garner majority GOP support, only bullshit symbolic votes to "repeal Obamacare" ever got that in the GOP.
 #170213  by ManaMan
 Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:32 am
kali o. wrote:McCain is mentally ill at this point.
He is quite literally "sick in the head" with brain cancer. Not sure how much it's affecting his cognitive abilities but regardless I'm glad he's thwarting their crappy plans.

I'm fine with the Federal government giving money to states to figure out different approaches to healthcare. Let there be 50 different approaches & we can see which works best. Honestly I haven't read as much about Cassidy-Graham but it sounds like it's more-or-less doing this but punishes states that took the Medicaid expansion (they get less $). Also, it chips away at the required benefits & pre-existing condition protections. These should be protected. There's a workable concept & even room for ideological compromise here but everyone is so inflexible that I doubt it will pass.
 #170218  by kali o.
 Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:25 pm
ManaMan wrote:I'm fine with the Federal government giving money to states to figure out different approaches to healthcare. Let there be 50 different approaches & we can see which works best.
Everyone knows that is the best approach and could lead to some really innovative programs. It's funny because everyone agrees Obamacare, as is, can't be sustained and needs change/repeal. Rand Paul is shitty shadow of his father; claiming to hold out for a straight repeal that has no chance in the current political climate. No idea who Collins is or what her motivation could be. McCain is fucking brain damaged at this point and won't be around much longer, one way or another...

Actually, where is that McCain video....

 #170222  by Shrinweck
 Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:43 am
Yeah that Comey hearing questioning came to mind the second his diagnosis was released. I don't think one incident is wholly damning but if it isn't just a single senior moment then it should obviously be kept in mind.
 #170223  by ManaMan
 Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:33 am
Wow, yeah his cognitive abilities are definitely not 100% in that video
 #170237  by ManaMan
 Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:44 pm
kali o. wrote:
ManaMan wrote:I'm fine with the Federal government giving money to states to figure out different approaches to healthcare. Let there be 50 different approaches & we can see which works best.
Everyone knows that is the best approach and could lead to some really innovative programs. It's funny because everyone agrees Obamacare, as is, can't be sustained and needs change/repeal. [...]
But most politicians aren't interested in letting different states decide. They know that they're right & want to ensure that their beliefs are enforced on the heathens. The left thinks the right are a bunch of sadistic sexists & racists who can't be trusted with health care & the right thinks the left are a bunch of communists who'll push socialized medicine in the first step of a slippery slope toward turning us into the USSR.

There definitely is a workable compromise but to get the Democrats to agree, it would have to sustain spending levels at least similar to under Obamacare (which the Republicans don't want) & to get the Republicans to agree it would have to allow states flexibility on what's covered & who's covered (birth control, birth, & pre-existing conditions) which the Democrats definitely don't want.
 #170240  by Eric
 Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:42 pm
You cannot retract an entitlement once it's been granted, the group that does the retracting would be committing political suicide.