The Other Worlds Shrine

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  • Why I think Frozen is the best Disney-esque film since Secret of NIMH

  • Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
 #171770  by Julius Seeker
 Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:28 am
This film is often considered the most annoying Disney film in years, primarily due to its immense popularity. But looking past that, it's one of their best, if not their best film of all time (and yes, I realize it's made for kids, I have to put up with kids all the time in my family, so kids stuff is something I have to pay attention to anyway).


I'll get the minor (but important) things out of the way:
1. Visuals, absolutely stunning, I think this film, Tangled, Frozen 2, and Moana, really took the Dreamworks/Pixar style to a whole new level. Frozen 2 is better than the first, but it's also weaker in all other aspects.
2. Song quality - no doubt this film has the most catchy tunes in a Disney film outside of maybe Mulan and Aladdin (sorry, I didn't get into the Lion King stuff as much as most).

Now for the big reason. The plot.

If there's one thing Disney films have been lacking in since at least the 1960s, it's the plot. As much as people like Little Mermaid and Aladdin, you have to admit, the plot of these two films stink. In both cases, they're the most barebones 3 Act Disney formula possible.

Tangled Upped the plot complexity by a significant margin, but Frozen took it even further.
You have a wide cast of characters and three major plot threads that all feed through the main story. This is 3X as much as you get from most films. Usually, if a story follows multiple characters, they're basically on the same arc, this isn't the case for Frozen:
1. Elsa - trying to find her place in a world that rejects her.
2. Anna - trying to repair the damage caused between her and her sister.
3. Prince Hans - trying to be the hero of the Kingdom and live happily ever after (as King).

But I think where Frozen trips the formula is with the twists.
1. There's the big end twist, Prince Hans's goals come into conflict with both Elsa and Anna, and he turns out to be a villainous character, and not a likable hero at all. He planned to marry Anna, be the dominant leader among the two, and make for a Crusader Kings style end to Elsa so he can take the throne.
2. And this one is my favourite - the whole "Let it Go" song that people find so pleasing is fantastic for Elsa's arc, as it means she is allowed to be herself in peace; what many miss is the conflict between her and Anna this creates. The slamming of the door at the end of the song is symbolic of her shutting out the whole fucking world. This sets up the showdown between her and Anna later on, where Elsa delivers a mortal wound to Anna with her ice powers.

In both cases, they set up expectations along the lines of what you'd expect from a Disney film and then pulled the rug out to show what the reality of the situation is (and it's a more realistic approach than what Disney always did).

For context, the third thread leads to Anna's adventure to confront Elsa.

All of this ends in the triple climax - Anna returns, tells Hans that Elsa betrayed her, and hoping for a true love's kiss, Hans sees the opportunity and denies her. He locks her in a room to die. Goes to tell Elsa that she killed her sister with the ice attack from earlier. Elsa, who is stricken with grief, is ready to accept her execution only to be saved by Anna, who blocks the sword, shattering, and sending Hans flying back. Elsa has the crying scene, and then magic happens, and Anna resurrects (funny enough, this is pretty much the same ending as Secret of NIMH where Mrs. Brisby cries over her children sinking to their death, and the tears activate the pendant which saves the kids. I realize this sort of thing is a blatant "all is lost and then saved" plot mechanic designed to get people emotional, but I can't help breaking at these moments whether I'm 3, or in my late 30s.



Anyway, Frozen manages to spin in the usual Disney cliches just like the other films. Still, the plot structure itself is more advanced than anything Disney's ever done in their animated films. The polar opposite of the simple Disney Renaissance flicks (some people extent that period through the 90s, I look at it as more Beginning with The Little Mermaid, and kicking into gear with Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King, and ending on Pocahontas. While the remainder of the 90s had arguably even better films, they weren't as critically or commercially successful). Also, films like The Rescuers Down Under, Goof Troop and DuckTales films were contemporaries of the Disney Renaissance; I wouldn't say they were a part of it.

And IMO, Bluth did better Disneyesque films in the 1980s than Disney ever did after the death of Walt Disney (at the least). I only say this because the golden age of Disney is untouchable in the world of animation with the quality of its artistry; at least in terms of Disneyesque films - stuff like Akira is genuinely stunning.


(and yes, two longish posts in a day, I'm procrastinating and had a few morning drinks).
 #171772  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:08 am
Yeah... Frozen 2. I kind of want to forget that one doesn't exist. It's not a terrible film relative to other Disney films, but it IS a bad film relative to the first.
In short: they gave it a very formulaic single-threaded plot. The most compelling thing about it (other than its sequel status) is an upgrade in detail from previous WD animated features. But while Frozen 2 fell well short of the original critically, the audiences seem to have loved it, and it has grossed 1.5 billion; but such things happen with Disney - Little Mermaid destroyed All Dogs Go to Heaven head to head despite the latter (IMO) being vastly superior; that's the opinion I held at age 8, and I still hold it today at 38!

But back to recent Disney, I think the most amusing dialogue lines they have written into their animated films in recent years came from Tangled.

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 #172021  by Julius Seeker
 Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:47 pm
Stumbled on this video from SNL, funny enough to share =P



On the Destin Mattias character. Having a black character as part of a Scandinavian court actually wasn't completely out of the question for this time period. Gustav Badin was a servant turned Swedish courtier who became a wealthy land owner, a knight, joined several orders including the Freemasons, and married twice (once to a merchant's daughter, and second to a shipbuilder's daughter). He also, allegedly had an affair with the princess, with whom he was close to (and she had a child in secret).
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But, you know what? Destin Mattias could have had a more imaginative backstory. He's far from the first black character in a fantasy/medieval/pre-industrial film of a European setting, but perhaps has the most bland backstory of them all, "Brought up by my father in Arendelle, and joined the guards" which is why some have said he seems shoehorned.
Perhaps he was a mercenary helping in the war fought during Elsa and Ana's grandparents time? Or maybe he met the royal family while they were traveling, and maybe they saved his life so he joined their court, or maybe he saved theirs and they decided to Knight him, and he rose quickly through the ranks. People probably wouldn't question why a black guy happens to be living in 1800s Scandinavia if there was an explanation of how he or his family got there, and it would have enhanced the film to develop his character more.


Also, people go on about Frozen 2 somehow being more mature than the first. I don't see it, personally. If anything, it's the more thematically shallow of the two, and I don't recall any innuendo like the first one: like the obvious shoe joke, and Ana asking "how can we have a ballroom with no balls?" - on the surface, questioning why the palace doesn't throw parties, and the innuendo being the fact that they haven't had any viable men in the palace since well before the two princesses reached adulthood.

What I'd have liked to see is leaning a bit more into Elsa's sexuality, give her a romantic angle with a woman she meets in the North as a major plot point. Maybe she was dreaming of a woman who was also dreaming of her, and they both have powers. It a sexy woman would have been a better fire spirit than that little dragon thing. Might have created monster controversy, and otherwise hurt their profit margins because angry grannies would forbid their kids from seeing the film, but they probably would have upped the young adult audience significantly, and there'd be something about Frozen 2 to talk about for decades to come. There are still those "sex is only meant for procreation" types who are completely oblivious to Elsa's sexuality... instead insisting she's "asexual" or something. An out lesbian Elsa would be a very interesting turn for the character.

Wanna really make it mature? Then they should plan a PG third film. IMO, bumping up super hero films to rated R (Deadpool, Blade, Logan, etc...) helped their quality quite a lot.