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Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:53 pm
by Julius Seeker
This will be mostly chronological in order.

1. Super Mario 64 and Odyssey (Switch) - These ones are kind of weird for me because I love games like Banjo Kazooie and Super Mario Galaxy, to this day I enjoy playing them. What does SMG do differently? 1. More interesting levels, the exploration feels meaningful and part of the narrative, and it seems there's always something I want to look for. With Mario 64 and Odyssey, I often felt directionless, a lack of inspiration to explore.

I've heard it's because these games are "open world" or a "sandbox game"- the thing is they're not. When I think of a sandbox game, I think of a game with open world elements, but you can literally just stick to a small part of the world and have a meaningful gameplay experience: Crusader Kings, Minecraft, SimCity, Dwarf Fortress, etc... With open world I expect a non-linear experience either without an ending or the ending just being something you can do (Breath of the Wild, Witcher 3, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Dragon Quest 9 post-game, etc...). Super Mario 64 and Odyssey (especially Odyssey) are incredibly linear, and feel more linear than Galaxy 1. The levels are closed off and while you can do things out of order, they're designed with a specific direction to follow. They're basically the same as every 3D platformer not using the Crash Bandicoot formula. Lastly, none of the sandbox or open world games I listed above have the issues in Odyssey and 64.

This is just my opinion that the games aren't very interesting, they're extremely popular.

2. Final Fantasy 9 - This game had the graphical style and many elements I wanted to see in an RPG. It somehow felt very flat to me. But replaying it a few years back, and then the other FF games, I see kind of clearly why I disliked the game.

Characters are shallow and uninteresting. While Vivi has a somewhat interesting Sci-fi-ish story, it seems just like a simplified version of the Cloud and Sephiroth stories and lacking the emotional and psychological depth, or detailed account. I considered it might be that the cast is very shallow and extroverted, a change from FF4 to 8, but FFX has extroverted characters too, and they're interesting.

Pacing is a big issue, the story is heavy in the beginning 6-8 hours and the last 2-3 hours, but the middle is mostly just running through uninteresting scenarios, empty locations, giant repetitious trees, and more. It is a big change from FF4, 6, 7, and 8 where (at least IMO) there was always a lot of interesting stuff going on in the story at every single step. FF7 does have a lull period in the late game, but that's about it for all 4 of these games. FF9 has lull periods that are bigger than FF7s, and they're throughout the whole game.

3. Metroid Prime - this is another game franchise I don't get. It's got incredibly high reviews, and in theory I should like it given I like exploring around. But the last time I tried to play the flaws and reasons I disliked it were more obvious. In short, I dislike dungeon crawlers and slow paced FPS games - Metroid Prime is both.

Initially, I thought it was just the Gamecube controller, controls for games like Metroid Prime and RE4 are clunky and frustrating. The Wii remote setup is a giant improvement for each, but the difference is Wii RE4 is tons of fun, but Metroid Prime is still annoying. It is not just the controls, but the scanning visor is intrusive and feels kind of meaningless. Each time you scan something, you have to flip out the visor, and let the scan load, and then read what message comes up - sometimes it's interesting, but 9 times out of 10 it's something you've read before, or something that feels less inspired than a mobile game's flavour text.

The thing is if you don't scan everything, there's a high chance you'll miss something important, such as, the only way to proceed forward in the game. If you get stuck in this game, it's a needle in a haystack going around and figuring out what it is you missed doing.

Third, I felt that the game didn't have very interesting things to do. There was some stuff that felt like a pinball game when using the Samus-ball (or whatever), and that was kind of interesting. But the game feels desolate and empty compared to the 2D counter-parts; and the 2D counter-parts, seem to have more interesting areas, despite being more repetitive in level design; and Metroid 2 being monochrome.

4. Bravely Default and Project Octopath Traveler - I think it was in these two games I recognized elements that I really didn't like in RPGs - complicating the battle system for complexity's sake. It doesn't make the game more interesting to me, in fact, after I master the battle system in the first 20-40 minutes, it more or less feels like extra stuff to do to achieve the same thing as just hitting "Attack" from a menu. And those games with "Attack" and "Skill" and "Magic" tend to have more complex tactics to take down the enemy, while the games with the complex battle systems are pretty much the same order of operations each time. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had this issue with its combo system as well, but the game had a lot more going on for it than its battle system.


Sure, this sort of battle system looks interesting, but when you do it hundreds and hundreds of times you just want to GET ON WITH IT! And the game becomes more about how to most simplistically destroy enemies rather than trying to master the battle system.

Xenogears was the first game to stack battle points, but it was optional - and resulted in fairly cool looking moves - but IMO, the weakest part of Xenogears gameplay (besides the Tower of Babel jumping). Bravely Default basically forces you into doing it, and menu selecting 3 attacks from each character.

Chrono Trigger is the ultimate simplistic execution with complex results battle system.

Also, Bravely Default repeats like 4 times to pad. Some of the stuff about how the world changes is interesting, but otherwise it's dumb. Chrono Trigger does this too, but it's New Game +, and feels MUCH better. Imagine playing Chrono Trigger, but you couldn't get to an ending act against Lavos until playing through a forced New Game+ 4 times? Also, Bravely Default is NO Chrono Trigger in terms of the environments.

5. Child of Light - this game is beautiful but, much like the above, too complex for what it is. Basically a platformer with RPG battle mechanics lumped in. Super Paper Mario does something similar, but is FAR more fluid and is actually a lot of fun - IMO, the most underrated of the Paper Mario games.


Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:37 pm
by Eric
I think Super Mario 3D world on 3DS and now the new Switch one was the game that made me realize I kinda hate traditional Mario games? lol

I did enjoy Odyessy oddly enough.

I also agree with the rest of your list which means the world is ending. Heaven help us.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:29 am
by Oracle
I agree with some, but the one I have to really disagree with is Octopath Traveler. Not that I don't agree with some of the gripes about the battle system, but I felt the game had "more going for it" than just the battle system itself.

I actually expected to hate the game somehwat going into it (which is why I waited for it to be on sale) - it just screamed Saga Frontier to me... A game I had a very stressful relationship with on the PSX :)

I played the Metroid Prime games (most of them), but they always felt like chores. I usually power through games once I get into them. With the primes, I would play for a bit, drop it, and pick them up weeks or months later. Just not one of those "I can't wait to play again" types of games.

FF9 was a blur to me, and definitely was not overly memorable. Usually if a game is bad, it could at least be memorable for that. But not FF9... just so exceptionally mediocre. Final Fantasy Generic. It just felt like a bunch of undercooked characters, storylines, experiences...

I've been looking at Bravely Default 2, but it just doesn't grab me.

I hate most open world Mario 3d games. Never like Mario 64. Liked Sunshine, it's atmosphere and gimmicks, just not enough there to keep me into it. Couldn't get through Galaxy. My kid really got into Odyssey, and while I haven't played through it entirely on my own, it's definitely one of more enjoyable games.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:32 am
by Oracle
I agree with some, but the one I have to really disagree with is Octopath Traveler. Not that I don't agree with some of the gripes about the battle system, but I felt the game had "more going for it" than just the battle system itself.

I actually expected to hate the game somehwat going into it (which is why I waited for it to be on sale) - it just screamed Saga Frontier to me... A game I had a very stressful relationship with on the PSX :)

I played the Metroid Prime games (most of them), but they always felt like chores. I usually power through games once I get into them. With the primes, I would play for a bit, drop it, and pick them up weeks or months later. Just not one of those "I can't wait to play again" types of games.

FF9 was a blur to me, and definitely was not overly memorable. Usually if a game is bad, it could at least be memorable for that. But not FF9... just so exceptionally mediocre. Final Fantasy Generic. It just felt like a bunch of undercooked characters, storylines, experiences...

I've been looking at Bravely Default 2, but it just doesn't grab me.

I hate most open world Mario 3d games. Never like Mario 64. Liked Sunshine, it's atmosphere and gimmicks, just not enough there to keep me into it. Couldn't get through Galaxy. My kid really got into Odyssey, and while I haven't played through it entirely on my own, it's definitely one of more enjoyable games.

Note: comparing games to Chrono Trigger is like adding dynamite to rock-paper-scissors :p

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:44 pm
by Don
I never thought FF9 was any good. It's probably the only FF I played that I didn't play again and it's not like Xenogears where it's simply too exhausting to go through the whole story again even though it's good. They tried way too hard on some old school nostalgia but there just wasn't any meaningful substance there.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:15 pm
by Julius Seeker
To be fair to Octopath Traveler, the post is mostly about my experience with Bravely Default. I didn't come remotely close to finishing Octopath Traveler. I might try it again as I really like the graphics on it. Bravely Default...... I played the whole thing! It was like a 60+ hour game in the end.

Saga Frontier Remaster is coming out for Switch, the original is one of the few PSX games still in my "ToDo" pile. I already committed to playing 6 different Saga games - I bought the FF Legend collection, Romancing Saga 2 & 3, and the new one (Graces or something). FF Legend 1 is NOT what I remember it being... (I'll write about it in another thread when I finish the trilogy); I mean, technically it is, but that's only because I'm uncovering childhood trauma I had with the first couple of times I played the game - I taught myself some tricks and strategies later on to get through it much more easily, but I might have been 13 or 14 the last time I played... so I forgot those tricks and strategies.
Anyway, I'll still see about Saga Frontier, knowing it might be a nightmare. Again, this is one game I want to like, so it might end up on this list.

I like the FF Generic description of FF9, it really is the "New Super Final Fantasy" of the series. It played it VERY safe, and I think it might be the only Final Fantasy game in the mainline series to have ever done that. FF5 maybe? I haven't played that one since like 1996 on emulator.
FF9 is really popular among highly opinionated fans, even though FF7 and FF8 routinely outsell it. My theory is the FF9 is not so much about honestly like the game, but more of a rebellion based in the hatred of "cringy" introverted mentally damaged leads that characterized the older FF games :D
It's almost like a political bias than based on authentic feelings.
FF9 fans are ultra aggressive in their hatred toward FF8 and to a lesser extent FF7. They run with the narrative that FF9 is a back to the classic style of FF . So, FF6 and FF4, IMO, despite featuring somewhat "cringy" introverted leads, get the pass because if you're running with the back to classic narrative, then bashing Nintendo-era FF games will destroy the argument.
I'm an introverted person, so I find a lot of relationship with the characters of FF6-8 particularly. It might be that extroverted people simply relate to characters they like differently than introverted people and that I'm unjustly bashing the FF9 fandom.


Xenogears, I love the game, it's one of my alltime favourites, but fully understand why people dislike it :)
Xenogears is super flawed. Maybe not quite FF1 flawed (and I like FF1 a lot, too, still play it time to time), but close to as flawed as PSX/Dreamcast era RPGs got. The reason I love it is I really like the setting, the story, and the characters/villains - the cities have this aura of vastness about them which I think I felt for the first time in Chrono Trigger - where stuff felt a lot bigger than it actually was. On a side note, the lineage of Xenogears is a child of Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6, sibling of FF7. Some of the elements are apparent:
Soraya Saga did Sabin and Edgar in FF6, while Tetsuya Takahashi did the Magitek Armour sequence - the pair worked on the original concept of FF7 - Takahashi had an idea to make Magitek Armour a big part of the next FF game, and those became Gears. Bart's ancestors (Rene and Roni) are based on Sabin and Edgar.
Tetusya Takahashi also worked on Chrono Trigger, and headed up the Chrono Trigger 2 sequel, which became Project Noah/Xenogears - Deus is literally Lavos renamed and reworked.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:16 pm
by Eric
Oh I forced myself to play through Megaman 9-11, kinda hated the entire experience, I like Megaman games, right? Made me think. I think I have less tolerance for cheap deaths in my 30s then I did earlier in life.

I really really really wanted to like Souls games, and the only one I actually like/love is Bloodborne. I get like 1/4 of the way through the rest of those games and I just lose interest. I don't know if it's Bloodborne's weapons, story, lenient parry system, or whatever, but I love that game and I can't beat any of those other Miyazaki games. I haven't tried Sekiro yet, but I'm hoping if the parries are as fun/rewarding ad Bloodborne I'll enjoy it. Demon/Dark Souls though? Meh.

I'm sure some others will come to mind, need to glance @ my steam list.

Speaking of Octopath I might try it again, but I was kinda turned off by all 8 stories apparently having no intertwining aspect to it? I quit pretty early on, I wasn't bothered by the combat, and the music certainly elevated it.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:05 pm
by Don
Just because Cloud isn't Mr. Sunshine doesn't mean he's like wholly unqualified to be a hero which becomes a trend around that era. Even Leon is a pretty decent person as a combat specialist. He just shouldn't have been in charge of the team and there was a clear assumption that he's supposed to have Laguna's charisma which is why people follow him even though he exudes none of it whatsoever in the game. I thought FF9 was more like 'whoa we got black mages again', and while I'm not too sold on the environment of FF7/FF8 I don't think just having a black mage is going to somehow turn things around.

Xenogears needs a double speed mode for the game to be tolerable because it just takes forever to get anywhere. The world is big but it never really mattered because you can't actually explore it so it's sort of just there. I guess they might have intended it to be a multiple part game like Xenosaga but it just didn't work out and I don't think it'd have even made sense if it was like Xenosaga where you play like 50 hours for just like 1/5th of whatever the whole game is supposed to be. It might have made sense if it was like a game featuring a major character and then it comes together at the end. At any rate that's way more ambitious than whatever they were able to do at that time.

I haven't touched any of the newer Megaman games because it seems like old school these days means you can die pointlessly over some cheap gimmick. Azure Striker Gunvolt is the only new Megaman type game I've bought and that's because at least it looks pretty though it reminds me of the whole 'kick them while they're down' Sonic style ending where after you barely beat the game you're reminded that you didn't actually get the real ending because you suck, and unlike Sonic it's actually a lot of work to get the real ending.

On the subject of Sonic, Sonic Mania originally looked promising, but I think that was a game where it got way too big where before they took away the timer you have a good chance of hitting the 10 minute timer needed to beat the game. Sonic game isn't really about exploring but rather getting through the level as fast as possible, and Sonic Mania levels just went on forever. It's probably better than whatever failed attempts to modernize a Sonic game but could've been a lot better.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:19 pm
by Eric
On Sonic Mania, I def agree that some of those stages ran on a little long, especially on the first playthrough and in some cases tryin to figure out the boss gimmick would def eat the entire 10 minutes. It def has that air of "this was a fan game" at one point, kinda like a lot of the ridiculous Megaman fan-games that require precise slide-jumps to get from platform to platform.

On repeat playthroughs it's less of a problem, and there's a great deal of gameplay/Sonic in those games that make it more forgivable considering the price point and how much of a love letter it is to the 2D series.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:59 am
by Oracle
Eric wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:16 pm
Speaking of Octopath I might try it again, but I was kinda turned off by all 8 stories apparently having no intertwining aspect to it? I quit pretty early on, I wasn't bothered by the combat, and the music certainly elevated it.

Well... the characters definitely meet up, but again, think Saga Frontier.


Independent stories that can involve the other characters (A character's main quest is basically a big long sidequest to the other non-primary characters). There is a tie in later, but it's not like it relates all the stories together. More like one more thing to do that, this time, everyone is 'primary'.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:55 pm
by Oracle
So just finished another playthrough of Octopath. The story tie in is more direct than I remembered. Just gotta make sure you keep up on the story/lore so the tie ins make sense.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Sun May 02, 2021 3:00 pm
by kali o.
I actually am enjoying Octopath myself (yes, I bought a Nintendo system...covid broke me). I'm sorta balancing my playthrough with a bunch of other games (fire emblem, xeno, pokemon, brigandine, etc), so I haven't sunk tons of time in, but I like it so far.

More on topic, I really wanted to like Cyberpunk but it's just not going to happen.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Mon May 03, 2021 7:31 pm
by Julius Seeker
kali o. wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 3:00 pm
I actually am enjoying Octopath myself (yes, I bought a Nintendo system...covid broke me). I'm sorta balancing my playthrough with a bunch of other games (fire emblem, xeno, pokemon, brigandine, etc), so I haven't sunk tons of time in, but I like it so far.

More on topic, I really wanted to like Cyberpunk but it's just not going to happen.
Ishamael's basement just froze over :D
I'm thinking our tastes probably don't overlap a great deal following the 16-bit era, but I think you might like Breath of the Wild, it has a fairly wide range appeal.

Also, control stick drift is an issue that results from dust build-up on the sensors. It hit mine for the first time about 2 years in, and again recently - so I'm thinking it's just something that happens every ~2 years. I've found electronic contact cleaner and a bit of a swirl clears up the problem after 2-3 treatments. Use the stuff on the control stick, and it'll work fine, but chances are within a couple of days when it settles, there will still be some particles, so do another treatment. It might not impact the newer model joycons, but mine are from launch day 2017.

Some other tips.
Check the "News" Channel weekly - Nintendo's current strategy is to announce most of the lineup no earlier than 2 weeks from launch. These are announced weekly under "News" - the second circular icon on the main screen at the bottom. It also allows you to subscribe to various devs and games to filter what gaming News you see. It's a very easy way to see if anything interesting pops up, because the Switch has the problem of issue of the often over 100 games released a month rather than the old problem Nintendo "no new games this month" problem of some past Nintendo consoles.

The EShop also has discount sales running all the time, sometimes over 1000 games go on , so it pays to add stuff to your wishlist; that way when it comes time to find a new game, you'll probably have a bunch that are on sale. Sales range from 10-99% off discounts.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Wed May 05, 2021 2:21 am
by kali o.
Ya, I have Zelda too, just haven't opened it yet.

First thing I did was buy wireless normal controllers for the Switch. Those clip on ones are too tiny and fragile feeling.

I did look in the eshop but it's pretty poorly organized and a bit cumbersome to navigate. It seemed like mostly shovelware on sale, while the main ones (Nintendo) are 80 bucks and stay there - but maybe that's not the case?

I didn't know there was a wishlist feature. That's very handy. Thanks.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Wed May 05, 2021 6:42 pm
by Eric
Did Ishamael ever get Cyberpunk? I wonder if he forced himself to like it lol.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Mon May 31, 2021 4:01 pm
by Julius Seeker
Eternal Darkness

I forgot about this one. The game has interesting ideas. Some stand by this one as being an excellent title... and I probably DID praise this one in the past out of wish it to be great. It gets a lot of things right on paper, story, interesting settings, interesting idea for mechanics... but I didn’t the execution at all. The historical settings didn’t feel historical - and the tension lacked in most of the game... there was one part where you hear walking in the mansion, and no one’s actually there, that was the only really tense moment. The tub scene jump scare was the best moment of the game... for all 3 seconds it lasted.

The sanity system was almost as atrocious as the level design and balancing—doing more to take away from the experience than add to it. It wasn’t just half baked... despite the long cooking time (beginning on N64, ending halfway through the Cube, it seems they forgot to turn the oven on and all we got was a mass of raw dough that will make you want to wash your hands after touching it.

I’ll note that I worked directly with someone who used to work for Silicon Knights - the development team of Eternal Darkness. I heard some not so nice things said about Denis Dyack, who was (in the time of his relevance) a highly respected figure among Nintendo fans... but it seems he lacks respect among (at least some of) those who had the misfortune of working for him.

While on GameCube games, I’d probably add Mario Kart DD as well if it mattered... many still played Mario Kart 64 - and even the original Mario Kart - until about the time of the DS/Wii versions. In other words, with that one, I didn’t really care that I didn’t like it.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:49 pm
by Oracle
Desperate for a game to play... Just did 2 playthroughs of Trials of Mana. But I just can't bring myself to buy Saga Frontier....

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:09 pm
by Eric
The time has come, Terranigma, go.

Re: Games I wanted to love, but didn't

PostPosted:Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:01 pm
by Julius Seeker
Whew! I read the word “Terranigma without context on the post.

Never have I come across a game that is so much better on replays, although the first playthrough was great too.

But in the Saga franchise
I haven’t played a lot of the Romancing Saga games yet, but 2 and 3 look great. I’ll be getting to them after FF Legend 3 but I am currently playing a ton of Victoria 2 (grand strategy game along the lines of Crusader Kings/Romance of the Three Kingdoms)

I played through Final Fantasy 1, that game is like 8% fun, and 92% suffering. It’s a short game, 6-7 hours, but feels more like 25-30.

Final Fantasy Legend is 7 hours of pain and suffering.

Final Fantasy Legend 2 is great on the other hand... But I think it largely has to do with party composition. FF Legend 2 can be chore-like if you use more than 1 human. Humans have high potential but are by far the highest maintenance meaning if you have more than one you’ll be grinding for extra money. I played 2 robots and 2 mutants (with 5 equip slots and 3 learn slots each, always kept a learned Cure spell since it’s WAY better than items) and that seemed to be balanced just below the need to grind out cash, there were 2 or 3 points where I needed 10-20 minutes.