E3 thread!

[Eric]

Anything in particular catch your attention yet?

Can't wait for Infamous. ^_^

[Julius Seeker]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/vi ... bscription

PS4 requires you pay a monthly fee for multiplayer games.

[Julius Seeker]

Square rebranding FF 13 Versus as FF15 is lame as shit. With FF14, that's two FFs in a row that aren't even real Final Fantasy games.

The irony of Square saying "It'll take us 5 years to remake FF7, that's why we're not doing it." is that 5 years would be a short dev time for them if all of their other games are any indication.

Games I want Square Enix:
* A new Final Fantasy game with a world map and towns.
* Final Fantasy 7 remake
* A Dragon Quest for handheld with online features and not online necessity.
* A sequel to Quintet's Soul Blazer trilogy
* Remake of Quintet's Soul Blazer trilogy
* The next Ogre Battle
* A new Actraiser

What I don't want from Square Enix: For Final Fantasy 15 to actually be just Final Fantasy 13 Versus.

[SineSwiper]

At this point, I don't even give a shit about Square. They're done, and have been done for a while. FF13 was the last good game they put out, and there's plenty of disagreement with even that.

[Flip]

FF and Square arent selling systems anymore. They were the main reason i bought a PS1, but that ship has sailed.

If i get a new system it needs to be one that has good apps (like Netflix and HBOGo, which they will both have) and the better downloadable indie games. Sony is scoring points with its used games and always on stance, but it seems they went the XBox Live model and now require payment for online, which is more lame than the other two issues.

[Blotus]

I called this VS13/15 announcement. They couldn't spends this much time on a game and then release it with a) a dumb name, and b) associating it with the much maligned 13 series.

BUT, I thought the trailer looked great! Granted, there was not a lot of gameplay footage, but I didn't mind the look of it. I can only hazard a guess, but it looks like it may play like Crisis Core... and I liked Crisis Core.

I wasn't able to catch the MS presser, but did watch the Sony one. Aaaaand, they did their homework. Nothing vague on their stance of DRM. They essentially took everything people were upset about with the Xbone and said "we're not doing that". Great strategy, good looking games (indies everywhere), clear message. Prior to watching, I was still in the mindset of "I'll just build a gaming PC soon". Now, I'm not so sure. I want to believe!


Re: PS+ required to play online -- not a big deal. I've never signed up for PS+ this gen just because I don't play a ton of games across the three platforms I actively use (XB, PS3, PC). If PS+ is as assertive in the next gen as it is now (multiple free games EVERY MONTH), you could conceivably have enough going on with this one console to keep you knee deep in games all year for ~$5/month. And that ain't bad.


Sony's got a lot at stake this round. I don't imagine they're making money on consoles sold at launch when factoring in R&D, components, and that it's $100 less than the Xbone. They have nothing to lose in the NA market and it looks like they're preparing to bring it.


We should make crazy predictions. Here's mine:
PS4 outsells Xbone 2:1 in North America this holiday.


Edit: on used games, apparently on PS4 it's still a third party publisher's option to include some kind of resale fee/restocking fee/whatever.

[Eric]

I'm excited about Versus 13, like BL said it's a modified version of the Crisis Core combat system, and Combat Core had an awesome system. It's something new and fresh, and what the series needed.

Also the fact that it's just Versus 13 turned into 15 isn't a big deal to me, Versus was so far removed from 13 in the first place that it doesn't matter what they call it to be honest.

PSN costing a fee now would suck more if I wasn't already paying for PS Plus, PS Plus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Live Gold, I've gotten a fuckload of free games from Sony for absolutely no reason(Good AAA games), and they don't seem to be changing that going forward with the PS4. If you're not already paying for plus, it might irk you to have to pay for it to play online, and I totally understand that, I didn't like the idea of having multi-player behind a paywall. It just so happens that PS Plus offers enough free stuff beyond paying for the MP that at this point I can't see it as the biggest issue. I think Microsoft is going to follow suit and start giving away free games for their Gold members too, so in the end we win. I'm honestly shocked free online multi-player lasted as long as it did on the PSN, and I always thought it was delusional of people to assume Microsoft would let people play MP for free, that's never happening.

[Eric]

Also, MEGAMAN IN SMASH ARGHAFAF:ILAFAJLFAJLKDAJDKLADW



Now why the hell didn't Capcom put Megaman in freakin Marvel vs Capcom 3, freakin darn Capcom.

[Eric]

Out of Nintendo's videos today, WOnderful 101 caught my attention the most, it's like Viewtiful Joe meets F-Zero meets Mother meets Pikman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9ueBmNNGus

[Shrinweck]

Tom Clancy's The Division looks pretty sweet and I'll buy it up if they announce it for the PC. The first Tom Clancy game I've been up for buying since I was a teenager.

Watch Dogs seven minutes of gameplay footage also got me interested.

Witcher 3 and Transistor were already on my future "Must Buy" lists but it's nice to see more out of them.

Considering how big the Witcher games have been in HD size alone, the fact that this coming one is so much bigger in scope and not as narrowly linear makes me think this is going to be a 50gb game lol

[Zeus]

Start Rant:

Everything about $ony's press conference was great, exactly what they needed to do and exactly what'll help them punish Microshaft.....except the fact you HAVE to pay for PS+ to play online. As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't care if it's 2 cents a month, it just shouldn't be forced. As it was I was considering getting PS+ for my PS3 because the 3 months I did have it with the free months I got, I musta played about 12 games and completed a few (Mega Man 10, Quantam Conundrum, Closure, The Cave), not to mention the fact it allowed me to purchase a few games at an extra discounted price (ie. I wouldn't have paid $10 for Sound Shapes but at $7.34, I said "what the heck"). I almost hate to say it, but PS+ on the PS3 might actually be worth the money. You guys know how much I hate paying for stuff like this. But they've actually made it worth the $50 even in my eyes.

But now I will on principal never pay for it on the PS4 the same way I have never, and shall never, pay a penny for Xbox Live. I simply don't believe I should pay more to play half of a game I already paid $60 for. If Valve, a company of 300 or so people, can get away without charging to play online for Steam, I'm sure $ony can too. It's a goosing, plain and simple. And I will never pay for it, even if I get the system.

End Rant

Now for the good stuff: at least I am seriously considering getting a PS4, maybe even this Christmas. The price point was excellent at $400, the complete lack of activation codes means I can actually still use my main source of acquiring games (Kijiji), and, as a side effect, they're gonna drop the price of the Wii U which will help me later this year (talk more about that later). Right now, I don't care about any of the games specifically other than maybe Kingdom Hearts 3, and that'll be the main deciding factor whether or not I get one this year or next year. But unlike Microshaft, their system isn't dead to me, which is a huge advantage.

As for other specific games, I just creamed myself after watching the Phantom Pain 9 minute video that was released. Man, that was an unreal looking game....and it's for PS3 (Xbox One version doesn't exist IMO). I love the whole Red Dead Redemption meets MGS4 gameplay. A great extension of the massive jump forward in gameplay that was MGS4, should be amazing. Definitely looks like an updated Fox engine, it's incredibly beautiful. I'm getting this one day one.



As Eric said: Smash Bros....with Mega Man....'Nuff said. What intrigues me is the differences between the two versions. They haven't said much yet but the art style differences (cell shaded vs not) are certainly noticeable (http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... u-and-3ds/). But until they tell us why I should care about the 3DS version and how it's not just Smash Bros on a handheld, I'll only really care about the Wii U version.

I'll put all my Nintendo stuff in one small paragraph (and a couple of videos) so as to not cause Sine and Don an anyuerism. No one is excited about Zelda: A Link Between Worlds? This is a sequel to Link to the Past, I thought many of you would be quite excited about it. Wind Waker HD doesn't mean much to me since I never really played the original. Donkey Kong Country Returns: Tropical Freeze is another I could pick up, series is fun. Super Mario 3D World looks like a mixture between Super Mario 64 (without the annoying camera) and Super Mario 2, which makes it a must-buy in my books. What about Bayonetta 2? If Nintendo didn't pay for it, you'd never see a sequel to that game, you should be happy you're getting it at all.





I don't know about you guys, but I'm very interested in Abe's Oddysee: New and Tasty. I loved Abe's Exodus and it'll be nice to play it again. I also love the Trials series, so I'm keeping my eye on Trials Fusion (fuck the portable one).

I'm super-excited about Mirror's Edge 2. I really liked the original and am amazed we're getting sequel. It woulda been a 9.5+ if it didn't have an identity crisis. If DICE can
control themselves and understand this game isn't about fighting and that you should be able to get through the entire game without fighting anyone, it'll be a must-have.

As for any other game? Well, I'm getting Gran Tursimo 6 and Lords of Shadow 2 right away. Must-haves for me. Everything else? It can wait. I'm giving Assassin's Creed a break for a while and I think I can wait for a GotY for Arkham Origins. I loved City but too much this Xmas and I just played it not too long ago. A couple more months won't kill me.

Blotus, it's confirmed: no additional fee or restrictions on used games on the PS4, period (http://www.edge-online.com/news/e3-2013 ... be-online/)

And, everyone, let us say our final goodbye to The Last Guardian. It was FINALLY placed on official hiatus so that tiny shred of hope we had that it was coming is officially dead. Let's just hope Beyond Good and Evil 2 doesn't have the same fate

EDIT: shit, forgot about Beyond Two Souls. Day 1 for me too.

[Blotus]

Blotus, it's confirmed: no additional fee or restrictions on used games on the PS4, period (http://www.edge-online.com/news/e3-2013 ... be-online/)

I watched the press conference too. I was basing that off the statement Tretton gave to Geoff Keighley the day after:
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/201 ... t-dictate/

In the same interview, he said first party games definitely would not be affected.

[Julius Seeker]

On the Nintendo side:

1. I think the Xenogame was the highlight of Nintendo's conference. It showed a world that was essentially Xenogears setting framed into Xenoblade style. Another few things I noticed in the trailer were nearby planets, and considering that flight seems to be a thing, it wouldn't surprise me if this game was interplanetary. My experience is fairly limited to Square titles and MMO RPGs, but to date Monolithsoft is the only company I have seen make large expansive world where it never feels like your running through pointlessly large landscapes. They've made 4 games, Xenosaga 1 was fairly bad here, Xenosaga 2 improved, and Xenosaga 3 improved further, Xenoblade had much more open environments and drastically improved further.

2. Pikmin looks really good, I like the mouse dragging using the Wii U Gamepad. Pikmin was shown in the Developer Direct hosted by Miyamoto. Miyamoto really showed why the Wii U version really takes it to the next level. I am also hoping that some other sorts of RTS titles make it, because I think a pure RTS, or some sort of God game would be even better. I am actually wondering if EA will consider porting SimCity, the Wii U is like the perfect platform for that title, especially with Miiverse integration.

3. Mario Kart 8 combined everything from Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart 7 and added gravity wheels to the karts. Think F-Zero type tracks where they twist and go upside down. It is almost like Mario Kart Galaxy in a way. The game looks like a lot of fun. Communities are tied into the Miiverse for gathering multiplayer leagues, posting screenshots, replay/highlight videos, etc...

4. Zelda Wind Waker is not just a simple port, but in the Developer Nintendo Direct, Aonuma noted that certain portions of the game have been remade, including a major addition to the ending, greatly speeding up the boat, and getting rid of the triforce treasure hunt close to the end of the game which he admitted was a mistake in the original. The game runs at 1080p, has added shader effects, and now loads the entire world map rather than just a portion of it. He said he will reveal more about aspects of the game that have changed later.

5. Mario 3D World is the sequel to Mario 3D Land. It adds multiplayer and a new cat suit. Like Mario 3D Land it is more along the lines of what you would expect from a traditional style Mario game converted into 3D. So more linear style levels with a beginning and an end (or 2 or 3 endings if secret endings are considered) as opposed to Mario Galaxy style levels which is more focused on collection of stars and completing different sorts of objectives. It should be noted this is not Takashi Tezuka's Mario Galaxy 2 sequel, that one wasn't shown and is probably a long way off.

So we got a Zelda and a Mario, just not THE Zelda or THE Mario. I'll go with this, but Inwould have prefered the releases to be the other way around, instead getting these games to hold users off at the end of the gen rather than the beginning.

6. Also new Donkey Kong Country game, and this one actually looks really good, a 3D game that maintains the tightness of a 2D game. Seriously Sega, pay attention, this is how Sonic should be made. I didn't watch the Developer Direct portion on this game, just the clip from the Iwata Direct. I'll probably checkthis out tomorrow morning and I may have more to add.

[Zeus]

And lest we forget the new RPG from Monolithsoft (Sine and Don: they're the makers of Xenoblade Chronicles)

[SineSwiper]

Tom Clancy's The Division looks pretty sweet and I'll buy it up if they announce it for the PC. The first Tom Clancy game I've been up for buying since I was a teenager.

Splinter Cell: Conviction is a fantastic game.

[Shrinweck]

I played a bit of it but never felt much like buying it. Division is more of a MMO/shooter/sandbox-ish game. Third person action has to hit a rare chord with me to get me interested.

[Zeus]

Blotus, it's confirmed: no additional fee or restrictions on used games on the PS4, period (http://www.edge-online.com/news/e3-2013 ... be-online/)

I watched the press conference too. I was basing that off the statement Tretton gave to Geoff Keighley the day after:
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/201 ... t-dictate/

In the same interview, he said first party games definitely would not be affected.

Hmm, not a good thing. They look like they're trying the same route as Microshaft, putting all the onus on the publishers. They're just a helluva lot more subtle about it.

I think I'm gonna wait 'til next year and see how all this plays out. See if any publisher has the sack to even consider it. I can't imagine it happening but if a few of the big boys get together and collude? It wouldn't shock me, that's for sure.

Good, only getting a Wii U this year. Saves me a lot of money.

[SineSwiper]

I liked the grittiness of the story. Splinter Cell, up until then, had been around doing missions and sneaking around in a "cleaner" setting.

Conviction was more of a revenge story. Sam Fisher is fucking pissed and he doesn't give a shit about breaking necks or breaking the law. Some of the gameplay mechanics was like Batman: Arkham Asylum, which is a really good game to compare it against.

[Shrinweck]

That Batman series is another third person action title that I would count as good but not particularly something I have enjoyed. A good example of that type of game without any RPG elements that I've enjoyed would be basically anything in the Prince of Persia series (even the ones most people disliked). What draws me to the Division is it's different and potentially ties in a lot of things that haven't been in a single game before.

What bores me about Tom Clancy games is they typically seem more about cool gadgets or interesting (killing) mechanics more than story. Revenge or patriotism are definitely powerful motivators but I can only take revenge so much or love my country so many times.

As for Batman... I don't know, I'm just not a DC person. To the point where even the really, really good Batman stuff just doesn't interest me all that much.

[Eric]

Final Fantasy XV Gameplay preview.

[Julius Seeker]

Oh my God! So on the 5th or 6th time watching the Xenosomething trailer, the one with the very Xenogears-like environment, I did notice something of interest. There were these strange creatures towards the end flying overhead, and they make a familiar noise. I didn't put my thumb on it at first, because it does sound somewhat whale-like, and I thought maybe I was just thinking of whales.... Then I remembered the Gnosis from Xenosaga.

Something very interesting is in the makes here

[SineSwiper]

Final Fantasy XV Gameplay preview.

Sooo... Devil May Cry with a dude that has Nightcrawler's powers?

Still, it looks pretty cool, and it's nice to break away from the the traditional RPG model.

[Zeus]

Heh...

Microshaft: "If you want online play, we got it for ya! It's called the Xbox 360"

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/06/12/g ... -microsoft

They're completely dismissing anyone who doesn't wanna be online all the time, saying that's not their audience anyways.

[Blotus]

They're completely dismissing anyone who doesn't wanna be online all the time, saying that's not their audience anyways.

It's nice to have goals...

[Zeus]

OK, $ony, you have my attention again. Looks like it's gonna be just online code bullshit and not full DRM like the Xbox One

http://www.destructoid.com/did-sony-con ... 6052.phtml

[Blotus]

OK, $ony, you have my attention again.

This ought to give you three or four boners.
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/a0v8 ... nd-trailer

[Julius Seeker]

I really like the direction Retro has gone with the platforming design in the upcoming DKC title. They've built a 3D platformer without losing the tightness and action of a 2D platformer. This is the direction the franchise really needed to take to get it to the next level. I also hope if they ever do another Metroid game that they strongly consider this, because frankly, the FPS style Metroids were boring. If they built a Metroid universe and brought back platforming, higher paced action, a character rather than just a gun arm on the screen, etc... They could make an insanely fun and satisfying Metroid game.

Another company that really should be taking notes is Sega, this would be an EXCELLENT direction for a Sonic game as well.

[Shrinweck]

Six reasons why the PC master race has won E3 even though 95% of this thread is about consoles http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/06/13/six-r ... inning-e3/

[Zeus]

OK, $ony, you have my attention again.

This ought to give you three or four boners.
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/a0v8 ... nd-trailer

I always knew you guys never read my posts but you didn't have to rub it in my face :-)

[Don]

The last reason about why PC is winning basically just says Steam games are very cheap, but I'm pretty sure any company could lower the price of their games if they wanted to. It might not be as simple as Steam but there's got to be a way for a game developer to decide that selling at $50 isn't going to do it so maybe they should lower it to $20 or whatever. I know there's the whole issue about paying money for shelf space, but in the end it's still better to sell something than not even if you have to lower the price by a lot. Incidentally, this also highlights why used game really don't matter on PC games because why bother buying someone's used version of whatever when you can expect it to be on sale for $15 soon on Steam? That's the direction console games should've taken. If they're going to do always online then they can use this to deliver games at a discount so that you wouldn't have incentive to buy a used game, especially when you're talking about physical products since paying $20 for a digitally delivered game sounds good enough compared to paying $15 for something that might be damaged or is missing a manual or whatever.

[Zeus]

Six reasons why the PC master race has won E3 even though 95% of this thread is about consoles http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/06/13/six-r ... inning-e3/

It's just too easy....

1) Oculus Rift - really, is this the 80s again? No one cared then about attaching a display to your eyes, no one cares now

2) Graphics - look at my post and see what MGS5 running on a PS3 looks like. Graphics are hardly a differentiator anymore and will hardly be a reason for people to buy a new console. PS3 and Xbox 360 games just don't look that outdated yet, period.

3) No ten-year cycle - right, on PCs its more like car maintenance; you have to constantly do it or you can't run stuff anymore. I'd MUCH rather buy a console every 5 or 6 years than try to keep up with PCs. It's much cheaper

4) Social - no one cares on either PCs or consoles. This is barely noise

5) Backwards compatibility - it's called the Wii. And can I play Mario, Zelda, Mega Man, Castlevania, and all my other childhood franchises on the PC without emulation? (they're not talking about piracy in the article but about playing your old games)

6) Cheap - well, yeah, they can be cheaper on the PC. But it's not nearly as much of a difference as you think. Used market for consoles - for as long as it lasts - that you can't do on PC allows for significant discounts earlier on consoles. There are always sales for those who wait in retail locations or even for buying brand new stuff (there's a $20 per game rebate thing going on at Best Buy online for pre-orders of all the upcoming games now). And the fact you can sell your stuff means you can recover some of the money making the actual cost of gaming a lot closer. But yes, the sales on Steam haven't been touched on consoles....yet

PC ain't winnin' jack.

[Shrinweck]

1) I agree with you for the most part but it has already gained millions of dollars in attention and many in PC game development with a recognizable name has taken enough notice to say that they will likely support the Rift in their games. "No one cares" is false.

2) The 360 and PS3 do look outdated if you've got a half-way decent PCs. I owned a couple games on both my PC and 360 and they were leagues apart when given the chance by a non-shitty developer. Also - afaik all these next gen console trailers are rendered on PCs (not counting the ones shown directly by the console developers) because dev kits for the next gen consoles aren't in wide distribution. MGS5 falls into the rendered on a PC category. I'm sure it looks mighty fine. But if you spent $4-600 on the core innards of a PC you'd be able to have a game that looks like just as easily... provided you already had an old PC to work with.
(edit: Kojima apparently says that MGS5 will look better than the trailer on the next gen console as opposed to rendered on a PC. Either way it's difficult to make up your mind until you've seen one in person I imagine.)

3) I'm in my PC less often then you people seem to have to send your consoles in for repairs. At least I can do shit in my PC without having to send it to God knows where. If my PC breaks I can fix it that day if the motivation is there. If my console breaks I'm fucked for weeks. Mostly I think the main argument that should have been made (by them) is that we have more control over when and what we update.

4) Barely noise that console manufacturers can't shut the fuck up about supporting. But, yeah, no one really cares about this stuff.

5) It's called the Wii? What about everything else? You almost never have to perform cartwheels any more to play old PC stuff (unless you've stupidly gone forward a Windows iteration that no one cares about yet) and for that matter any cartwheels you're performing are free. Or you can go to GoG.com for DRM-less old games if you want to spend the cash. I'm sorry but the PC wins this one hands down. Maintenance of old consoles is basically left to hardcore collectors and the majority is fucked if you want to go back to old games. Piracy aside, having no backwards compatibility is just another way console owners have to slap down cash for shit you've already paid for.

6) We win this presently (and in the past) - I don't care if there's a possibility that the playing field could be lowered this decade (it probably won't be - Steam has a ridiculous head start with developer relationships. Sony and Microsoft have so many opportunities to put their hands in your pockets. Do you think they won't?). If anything console games are going to get more expensive, while big PC games are only just starting to see a price point shift to $60, with many titles staying at $50. Also having to go to let alone spend lots of time in a brick and mortar store is a deal breaker for me. If I'm in a store I'm on my feet and these damned things don't last very long before the pain overrules any sort of money saving.

Edit: The article link was more of a personal protest of "We're still here and viable" than a "This is why we're definitely better than you" argument starter but I should have worded it differently :P

I'm more happy with my PC exclusives than your (likely) temporary console exclusives. As I'm sure you're more happy with yours. Or our roles would be reversed. I'll get back to you when I've put 300 hours into Rome 2 Total War later this year.

[Zeus]

Yes, social combined with gaming is barely noise. The vast majority of the people don't give a fuck and never will. They're separate things to a lot of people

I look at MGS4 and I know that my PS3 ain't outdated. I can't wait to see what an updated engine will do. Trust me, graphics are gonna be a secondary issue this gen

Wii is very cheap for old-school gaming. Really, all you need is a 5 year-old PC and a Wii to legitimately play any old game other than the PS stuff. But you need both, Wii is essential because it has NES, SNES, Turbo, Genesis, N64, Neo Geo, and even GC

You're different when it comes to bricks and mortar. 70% of the market still prefers it

[Shrinweck]

That's mostly because of parents/gifting relatives and necessity. If there was a proper alternative for consoles like Steam we'd have more accurate stats... but let's not get into this AGAIN

Edit: Actually, considering the temporary nature of consoles, physical media from brick and mortar may be preferable since these things tend to break down and trusting Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo to let you re-download a full game ten years from now is kind of a joke.

[Zeus]

What the hell is this "temporary" talk? I have consoles over 30 years old that work fine. Do you have a 30 year old PC that works fine?

[Shrinweck]

You're a collector :P

The point is I don't need a 30 year old computer to play an old game. Are you suggesting computer hardware has less longevity than a console? Or just that they're temporary as well? Well either way it doesn't matter. It just emphasizes my point. Having working machinery of any type for decades is a rarity. PCs are inherently backwards compatible. If I had to keep five PCs around just to play old games I'd throw them out the fucking window.

[Zeus]

You're a collector

The point is I don't need a 30 year old computer to play an old game. Are you suggesting computer hardware has less longevity than a console? Or just that they're temporary as well? Well either way it doesn't matter. It just emphasizes my point. Having working machinery of any type for decades is a rarity. PCs are inherently backwards compatible. If I had to keep five PCs around just to play old games I'd throw them out the fucking window.

The point I was trying to make is that longevity isn't a differentiator with either PCs or consoles. If you're gonna use something to support your argument, longevity ain't it

[Shrinweck]

That wasn't what I was saying in the post you originally responded to at all. You're just latching onto things that aren't part of anything at this point :P

The idea is that consoles are only supported and developed for for so long and after that there's basically nothing worth staying for but the past games and if you lose them digitally you're boned. Finding anything else to argue about in that sentence is reading too far into it.

[Zeus]

Edit: Actually, considering the temporary nature of consoles, physical media from brick and mortar may be preferable since these things tend to break down

Yes, I'm latching on to the words you wrote :-)

[SineSwiper]

Graphics? Polygon count? Who cares any more?

[Zeus]

It's the big PR thing and will be the biggest selling point for the majority of customers

[Shrinweck]

Edit: Actually, considering the temporary nature of consoles, physical media from brick and mortar may be preferable since these things tend to break down

Yes, I'm latching on to the words you wrote :-)

You're taking the sentence out of context by not completing it - the sentence (bad grammar and all) is about hard drives breaking down (which happens... always - moving parts and all, unless they start putting SSDs into them) and you not being able to reclaim your data from their servers. The sentence is not about consoles breaking down and thus having no longevity.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

I'm keen on the PS4 as a platform and Infamous looks great, but I got most excited for Nintendo's stuff during E3: Super Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, Pikmin 3 (again!), DKCR2, The Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Zelda on the 3DS, &c. Just a bunch of really pure, sublime-looking games, and better yet I can now stand to look at them because they're in HD.

[Zeus]

Edit: Actually, considering the temporary nature of consoles, physical media from brick and mortar may be preferable since these things tend to break down

Yes, I'm latching on to the words you wrote :-)

You're taking the sentence out of context by not completing it - the sentence (bad grammar and all) is about hard drives breaking down (which happens... always - moving parts and all, unless they start putting SSDs into them) and you not being able to reclaim your data from their servers. The sentence is not about consoles breaking down and thus having no longevity.

OK, fair enough. I read it a bunch of times and it looked like you were referring to the fact consoles break down easier than PCs

But do you honestly think that a) you won't be able to play classic games on newer consoles (that Nintendo won't ALWAYS allow you to download Super Mario Bros if you so wanted to)? and b) there will even be physical media for PCs for the same length as on consoles? The fact you even have any physical releases on PCs goes to show just how much people prefer physical media but it's gonna last a lot longer on consoles than PCs

[Zeus]

I'm keen on the PS4 as a platform and Infamous looks great, but I got most excited for Nintendo's stuff during E3: Super Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, Pikmin 3 (again!), DKCR2, The Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Zelda on the 3DS, &c. Just a bunch of really pure, sublime-looking games, and better yet I can now stand to look at them because they're in HD.

Duck! Sine and Don are coming for you!

[SineSwiper]

I'm keen on the PS4 as a platform and Infamous looks great, but I got most excited for Nintendo's stuff during E3: Super Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, Pikmin 3 (again!), DKCR2, The Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Zelda on the 3DS, &c. Just a bunch of really pure, sublime-looking games, and better yet I can now stand to look at them because they're in HD.

Duck! Sine and Don are coming for you!

What is this local meme that we totally hate whatever they produce?

Whoooooo, I'm going to talk bad about Nintendo.....

[kali o.]

Duck! Sine and Don are coming for you!

I still don't like Nintendo's games, nor do I think they are good for the evolution of the industry (I think just a few days ago, they had a quote that referenced 'videogames should be treated like toys' or somesuch)...And if Seeker starts posting his delusional numbers and propaganda, I'll jump in. But I think this gen, MS is gonna get all the hate. And they deserve it.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

I think just a few days ago, they had a quote that referenced 'videogames should be treated like toys' or some such...

I'd be more conflicted about Nintendo if they were the only player in the market — I think they did real damage to the medium during their ascendance and hegemony across the 8 and 16 bit generations. As it is, though, I'm happy for them to do their own thing, even if that is (at worst) superficially infantile.

[Zeus]

Duck! Sine and Don are coming for you!

I still don't like Nintendo's games, nor do I think they are good for the evolution of the industry (I think just a few days ago, they had a quote that referenced 'videogames should be treated like toys' or somesuch)...And if Seeker starts posting his delusional numbers and propaganda, I'll jump in. But I think this gen, MS is gonna get all the hate. And they deserve it.

Nintendo has always been on the forefront of evolution in the industry. It's not about whether you like them or not it's about what has happened. Eliminating Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer is akin to eliminating indie movies from being released in theatres. You have to have SOMEONE keeping the innovation coming. Nintendo tries stuff far more often than anyone else, we need them around whether you like their games or not.

The way budgets are going now, there are less and less chances taken. This isn't coming from me. There's a recent article from Cliffy B on the same thing and a lot of the big game developers have left to join smaller, indie companies because the business side is taking over too much. And it's just gonna get worse and worse as graphical needs keep getting more and more expensive. Even moreso now that we're entering a state of severely diminishing returns as Sine pointed out in his graphic above.

Now, I'm not saying Nintendo is the only source of innovation. Far from it. I actually have less games for my last 3 Nintendo consoles than their rivals (play time? that's a different matter :-). But as the other systems are getting more expensive with more expensive games, we may need them more and more. I don't want all my innovation on my handhelds and (to a far lesser extent) smartphones. I want something on my consoles too

Now that I'm past the initial Microshaft "FUCK YOU!", I'm waiting to see how all this falls out. By February we'll know exactly how things are gonna work. I agree with the analysts, I don't think the publishers have the balls to deny used games. Activation codes can go away as easily as they come (deactivate that requirement, no more codes in new games). If those two things happen and $ony builds in Online Passes into every game released on the PS4, you may (although very unlikely) have a situation where your PS4 actually requires you to pay more to play than your Xbox One. I ain't getting either off the bat and I will very easily wait 'til the industry settles itself before I decide.

But a Wii U? Finally enough reason to buy one now. Gonna get one at Black Friday. Only question is: does Nintendo drop the 32GB to $250 and introduce a 128GB one at $300 or do they (very unwisely) try to get the extra $50 for each level?

[Eric]

I find it ironic that even though the Nintendo Wii U shipped with the tablet controller, you're now seeing the PS4 & Xbox 180 use tablets for their games and wowing audiences.

Nintendo again, was the innovator, Sony/Microsoft are reaping the benefits.